Is Williams Still Williams?

[White Lightning]

What with Patrick Head retiring a while back, half of the old duo has gone from Grove and Sir Frank's time looks like it is coming towards an end, so my question is this: is the Williams of 2012 the same Williams of Jones, Rosberg, Mansell, Hill and even Montoya?

The question sprang to mind over the weekend, when I noticed that amongst all of the merchandise stalls at Silverstone you couldn't move for McLaren and Red Bull gear, Ferrari had a big slice and even Lotus had their own stalls, but to find Williams - a quintessentially British 'brand' - you had to look in the deepest corners of maybe two or three 'general' merchandise stands.

Elsewhere, the stands were almost as red as Monza - McLaren must have made a chunk of their 2013 budget selling caps alone this weekend. There was the usual big Tifosi presence and I indulged in a Grosjean cap following his great drive, having worn last year's Kamui lid for the race. I saw maybe a dozen Williams caps/jackets over the three days.

It seems that nobody really cares about Williams any more. Maybe it's subconscious - we know deep down that Frank won't hang around much longer and the Grove factory will soon be owned by some unpronounceable eastern sports car company.

Maybe it's simply lack of success - those older than myself: did McLaren go through such a slump when they were crap for several years in the 1990s?

My personal belief is that the team has lost its soul. It's willing to hire mediocre midfield fodder (in spite of his win) in exchange for a dictator's oil money (the reason I didn't consider any of the paltry team merch offerings) and Ayrton Senna's mediocre nephew in what I assume is exchange for the name in their sponsorship pitches.

Admittedly, their 2012 has been immeasurably better than their 2011, but there doesn't seem to be any ambition to be higher than their current position. Their history says they should be looking to take the fight to Mercedes and Lotus now and the leading triumvirate soon.

So are Williams treading water waiting for their inevitable demise, or they still the same team that brought a lump to Murray's throat and led the bleeding edge of the technological revolution, with me talking nonsense?

[bewildered_jim]

[bawjohnson]

I think any soul the team had left went out of the door with Barichello..

[Anfield5]

We are never happy are we?
I recall a few months ago we were all ragging Williams and saying how they need to reinvent themselves to arrest the slide towards oblivion they seemed to be on, with a car that was hopeless, a team structure that di0dn't seem to have any hope of success and a lead driver who was o0ver the hi0ll and seemingly d0iss0interested 0in the sport.

So now Williams have changed, t0hey 0now have a car capable of winning GP's, 2 new drivers (sure one of them is a nut case!) and they are seemingly moving back towards being a comprtitive entity again, and we still rag them.

It's true that Frank and Patrick have stepped asi0de, bu0t any team that has been arou0nd s0ince the early-mid seventies is going to have it's share of managerial changes etc.

Question: in 1980 when Project 4 took over McLaren were people complaining about the heart and so.0ul of Bruce's team being ripped out by Ron Denis and company?
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Movable body panels - welcome to the Wacky Races

[bawjohnson]

Speaking of soul..

(from http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=46757)

Re: the Senna logo which Williams' cars have carried since his death:
"We've dropped that," he admitted, adding that after nearly two decades that it was time, plus "we've now got Bruno."

[MatCoch]

So the Senna S wasn't dropped after all...

Williams put out a brief statement on Monday refuting Sir Franks own statement, including a quote from Sir Frank.

[The Rumble Strip]

Currently, Williams are indeed still Williams.

To have the team founder still around, a well respected one at that and with no signs of an identity crisis from the team then that is a lasting legacy in itself.

Of course, they've been through recent bad times but the unexpected Spain win proves that the tables can be quickly turned with the right car.

I take the point about people seemingly caring less about the team and yes a lack of success may not have helped them in that regard but I do think that as long as Frank is still around, people wish the team well.

That said, you do worry what might happen to them after he goes but McLaren have shown that teams can still flourish after that point.

[porscheman]

[SkidMarks]

I am not even sure that the founder needs to be around for a team to retain its heritage.
My view, and it is only an opinion, is that Ferrari are still Ferrari, McLaren are nearly, but not quite still McLaren, Lotus are not Lotus and Mercedes are not Tyrell, although they may be BAR.

Perhaps a bit like "42" it is all well and good knowing the answer, but it doesn't make sense until you know the question.

What do we mean by "still Williams"? The Mansell years? Alan Jones? the March? Wolf? I doubt many here even remember the Politoys or Iso days. Last year's team certainly harkened back to those days, so with the improvements this season perhaps the cycle is repeating.
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I'm feeling tyred

[Anfield5]