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Be Careful What You Wish For

 
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moonrover
Grand Prix Winner


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 1271

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 21:39    Post subject: Be Careful What You Wish For Reply with quote

Check out Mat Coch's latest...

http://www.pitpass.com/46346-Be-Careful-What-You-Wish-For

good points somehow...
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TokyoAussie
F1 Driver


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 946
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 04:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disagree.

I don't think anybody ever said cars were not driven quickly, in clean air, at times. The main gripe is that aero prevented cars slipstreaming they way they once did; even prevented them getting close enough. I can't remember the last time I heard that word, assuming you don't count DRS, which I don't. Heck, all they talk about now is "bad air."

It was inevitable, I suppose, but "racing" could be a lot better (now and back then) with sensible aero regs. Which, for some reason, seem to be the only regs that never get changed. Double diffusers and blown diffusers don't count, not until they start with that monstrous front wing.
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gourami
F1 Driver


Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 862
Location: S Y D N E Y

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you kidding? The rear wings and front wings (most of the aero) have been significantly changed since early this decade... but more and more aero research by the teams has clawed back much of the loss... I think minimum spec wings, diffuser... heck... chassis... could dramatically kill aero advantages and return to a (Indy style?) ability to chase and pass cars... but is that what we want?

Kill DRS, double KERS allowance and I'd dare say the racing would still be pretty good... the last three seasons have been good from a racing POV.
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moonrover
Grand Prix Winner


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 1271

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 19:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

in one aspect, we can compare football with handball, there are much more goals in handball, but those fewer football goals worth more.

so is the overtakes, less possible passing of the past was much more precious than now. rarity sometimes is not that bad.

but I agree having 5 dif winner in 5 races and lots of passing won't harm.

Confused
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The Rumble Strip
Grand Prix Winner


Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 2089

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 14:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

With seven different winners out of the first seven different races, it's looking certain to be the most open championship in years, bettering even the 2010 version.

Perhaps the purists do have a point over issues with DRS and tyre strategy but perhaps the essence of F1 is the nature of its competition, good clean racing.

We've been getting a lot of that thus far in 2012.
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francisn
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 4584
Location: Closer to Woking than Maranello - unfortunately

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 14:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rumble Strip wrote:
With seven different winners out of the first seven different races, it's looking certain to be the most open championship in years, bettering even the 2010 version.

Perhaps the purists do have a point over issues with DRS and tyre strategy but perhaps the essence of F1 is the nature of its competition, good clean racing.

We've been getting a lot of that thus far in 2012.


Yes - we have certainly had a fair amount of good racing this year, but we have also had far too much "driving past" other cars due to the speed differential given by DRS. I personally don't count that as racing.
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The Rumble Strip
Grand Prix Winner


Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 2089

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 20:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take the point and admit to being rather sceptical over the concept at first but try to console myself with the fact that it seems to work in much the same way as things did in the turbo era days.

The turbo era was at its height when I first started watching the sport, so perhaps my memory is clouded in that respect in remembering how just how good it was.

I guess yu can call it a sort of throwback to happier by gone days and perhaps that contributes to my thinking on why DRS is not that bad after all.
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francisn
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004
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Location: Closer to Woking than Maranello - unfortunately

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 20:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Rumble Strip wrote:
I take the point and admit to being rather sceptical over the concept at first but try to console myself with the fact that it seems to work in much the same way as things did in the turbo era days.

The turbo era was at its height when I first started watching the sport, so perhaps my memory is clouded in that respect in remembering how just how good it was.

I guess yu can call it a sort of throwback to happier by gone days and perhaps that contributes to my thinking on why DRS is not that bad after all.


As Martin Brundle said on Sky on Sunday, although you could do it with the turbos, if you did it too much you ran out of fuel and/or eventually blew the engine. So it wasn't quite as "easy" as DRS.
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Ash
F3 Racer


Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 21:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

francisn wrote:

As Martin Brundle said on Sky on Sunday, although you could do it with the turbos, if you did it too much you ran out of fuel and/or eventually blew the engine. So it wasn't quite as "easy" as DRS.


Which meant fuel saving and not going flat out all the time, contrary to some sepia-framed memories of an era of 'real racing'. F1 has always been about looking after fuel, engines and tyres. I expect it has also always been full of people complaining about how much better it was in the good old days. Or maybe that's just an internet thing.
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francisn
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Joined: 23 Feb 2004
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Location: Closer to Woking than Maranello - unfortunately

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 22:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ash wrote:
francisn wrote:

As Martin Brundle said on Sky on Sunday, although you could do it with the turbos, if you did it too much you ran out of fuel and/or eventually blew the engine. So it wasn't quite as "easy" as DRS.


Which meant fuel saving and not going flat out all the time, contrary to some sepia-framed memories of an era of 'real racing'. F1 has always been about looking after fuel, engines and tyres. I expect it has also always been full of people complaining about how much better it was in the good old days. Or maybe that's just an internet thing.


True Smile
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bawjohnson
F3 Racer


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 247

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 15:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

DRS detracted from the Canada race in my opinion, what could have been a really interesting last gasp fight for position in the final laps with the racecraft and positioning of cars by the best drivers in the world on show became one car simply driving round the others with a sense of inevitability, I found it really anticlimactic, to be honest.
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Podge 90
F2 Racer


Joined: 31 Mar 2010
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 18:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

bawjohnson wrote:
DRS detracted from the Canada race in my opinion, what could have been a really interesting last gasp fight for position in the final laps with the racecraft and positioning of cars by the best drivers in the world on show became one car simply driving round the others with a sense of inevitability, I found it really anticlimactic, to be honest.

Was that not because of tyres? I see your point though, either way (DRS and/or tyres) it was pointless Vettel and Alonso even trying to defend against Hamilton.
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bawjohnson
F3 Racer


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 21:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was due to the tyre call by McLaren yes, but the advantage on the newer tyres coupled with the DRS straight line advantage meant that there was no race to the flag, just the shaking out of the tyre strategy.. I'm for DRS if all it does is create opportunities (i.e. allows one driver to get alongside another) but one driving past the other like they're an HRT being lapped was ridiculous
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Ash
F3 Racer


Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 02:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faster car in getting past slower car shocker!
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IMSA Racer
Grand Prix Winner


Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Posts: 1416
Location: Lake Minnetonka, Minnesota

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 19:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I really don't mind the DRS, but the manditory use of both tire compounds does bother me a bit.

If teams were allowed their own tire strategies and management, we just may see some additional interesting scenarios develop.

Soft tires? - More pitstops and position strategies.

Hard tires? - Fewer pitstops and possibly traction issues.

Combination? Who knows? It may come down to luck and timing.

To me racing has always been similar to a chess match except the chess board and rules can change in the blink of an eye forcing contestents to constantly reinvent their respective strategies.

And that in and of itself is the beauty of racing - any racing.

And I do have to agree with Mat that history is the way we choose to remember it in our minds and may not be the full story as things really happened.

Just my thoughts, of course . . .
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