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When Is A Hole Not A Hole
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The Rumble Strip
Grand Prix Winner


Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 2066

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 13:47    Post subject: When Is A Hole Not A Hole Reply with quote

When it's on a Red Bull.

Given the latest decision handed down by the FIA, declaring the Red Bull floor as illegal, you have to wonder how this will materially affect their season.

Perhaps more curiously, how can a floor be declared illegal now when it was supposedly legal earlier in the season and similarly, how can it be illegal and other teams are not when they run similar systems.


Last edited by The Rumble Strip on Sat Dec 29, 2012 22:48; edited 2 times in total
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Gary
F1 Driver


Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 930
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 13:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a hole in the floor,
Dear Dietrich, dear Dietrich.
There's a hole in the floor.
Dear Dietrich, a hole...
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solarflare
World Champion


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 3281

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 14:12    Post subject: Re: When Is A Hole Not A Hole Reply with quote

The Rumble Strip wrote:
Perhaps more curiously, how can a floor be declared illegal now when it was supposedly legal earlier in the season


See the previous 8,564,255 examples of this occurring in Formula 1 for precedence.
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Ash
F3 Racer


Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 03:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be argued that these grey areas in interpretation offer scope for imaginative bending of the rules that might be described as 'innovation'. If you get caught you have to change it, but no penalty for trying.

I'm not saying that I'm arguing this case, but some might.

OTOH, perhaps the FIA should have a clearer idea of its own rules, and the ability to implement them without the other teams having to risk the costs and political fall-out involved in making a formal complaint.
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White Lightning
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Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

What bugs me about this decision is that the floor was hardly a world-beating, double diffuser-type innovation...

Stop stifling creativity.
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The Rumble Strip
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Joined: 17 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:13    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having imaginative interpretation of the rules, after all that is partly what F1 is built on, the ability to compete and be better than your rivals.

However, in recent years there seems to be a trend to ban anything once a team appears to be getting an advantage out of it. We've seen it with double diffusers, off blown throttles and now this latest hole in the floor episode.

The main culprits, if you like, as regards protests to be constantly heard against appear to be the Red Bull team, presumably because they are the current cutting edge of technology.

It seems to me though that there is a culture in the sport whereby if one team has something and it seems to work for them, rival teams throw their toys out of the pram and attempt to destabilse their efforts.

Again, this is all in the name of competition but there has to come a point where clear interpretation is needed. I'm not sure that the try until it is protested route is good enough.
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Ash
F3 Racer


Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:59    Post subject: Reply with quote

White Lightning wrote:
What bugs me about this decision is that the floor was hardly a world-beating, double diffuser-type innovation...


Worth a tenth of a second a lap, I read somewhere (might not be true). If true, that's the difference between pole and not-pole. Which means the difference is a win at Monaco.

Quote:
Stop stifling creativity.


Odd way to spell cheating. Wink
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White Lightning
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 17:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ash wrote:
White Lightning wrote:


Stop stifling creativity.


Odd way to spell cheating. Wink


One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter... Wink
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Editor
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Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 18:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

White Lightning wrote:
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter... Wink


Jut ask the BBC
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xynaria
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Joined: 03 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 00:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

How on earth do any innovations ever come about at all when it's this ludicrous........seriously. What innovations have actually occurred and gone on to be allowed till further than the end of the season in say the last ten years????????
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Red Baron
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 03:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats wrong with a bit of ventilation? ...plus if they have to take a leak it's better out of the car than in it Wink
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Kennywinnit
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 19:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Baron wrote:
Whats wrong with a bit of ventilation? ...plus if they have to take a leak it's better out of the car than in it Wink

Yes, just ask Nelson Piquet's mechanics - allegedly
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Senna_MP4/4
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 09:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be hugely disappointed if, come the end of the season and a red bull is leading the championship and stripped of these wins, it isn't fair to leave it till the end and again bring this sport into disrepute.
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Anfield5
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Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 20:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senna_MP4/4 wrote:
I would be hugely disappointed if, come the end of the season and a red bull is leading the championship and stripped of these wins, it isn't fair to leave it till the end and again bring this sport into disrepute.


Totally agree, there should be a time limit on a race protest i.e. has to be actioned withing 5 days of the race finishing. The current situation is ridiculous, having a team complete the season with an axe hanging over them.

Imagine this system in other sports with a points table eg football.
'Arsenal you have a 5 point penalty for #^%$%?, however it will only be activated if it looks like you are going to win the league and Manchester United decide to request that the penalty is invoked" - what a load of rubbish!
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Carsten B
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anfield5 wrote:
Totally agree, there should be a time limit on a race protest i.e. has to be actioned withing 5 days of the race finishing. The current situation is ridiculous, having a team complete the season with an axe hanging over them.


Completely agree: Impose the penalty now or shup up forever.
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