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leonpmu
Kart Champion
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 93
Location: Mauritius
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 Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 06:46 Post subject: Vettels Penalty |
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Was well deserved in my opinion, thank goodness the stewards were consistent, (wow, did I actually write that??) as he clearly went entirely off the circuit, he almost landed in the next town!
Noting that he did that on many laps not just the one where he overtook Button, can't that be pulled up to be questioned before the FIA or the stewards?
Vettel has dropped in my esteem, seems like he will do anything to win, irrespective of the rules, and then simply walk around with the "What did I do wrong??" look on his face, trying to act like an angel.
I was really chuffed the first time Vettel won a race, in the TR in that really wet race in Italy a couple of years ago. But since he has tasted victory so many times his arrogance has got the better of him... He really needs to come down a peg or two, the same has had to Alonso, and I now sometimes catch myself not wanting him to stop on the side of the road. |
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Carsten B
Karter
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 45
Location: Madrid
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 08:51 Post subject: |
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Have to say that the penalty was completely well deserved, there can be no two opinions about it (or?).
I was surpised though; that his team didn't ask him to give 2nd back to Button immedeately. This way they actually managed to throw away a least the 5 points between 3rd (15 points) and 5th (10 points). And given the state of Buttons tyres he might even have got the 2nd spot anyway thereby having thrown away 8 points by stupidity.
After the race he actually looked like he knew he had done something wrong and just had to wait for the penalty - but hoping to get away with it. |
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MatCoch
Single-Seater Rookie
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 09:25 Post subject: |
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What we need to remember is that we don't see the context in what he is saying.
Often he's asked questions which are deliberately phrased to generate a response. Understandably he, and other drivers, are guarded in the way they respond.
What we read in the papers is not always a true or fair reflection of what was said.
I disagree that Seb is arrogant. He is very confident, and if he's asked a question where he does not have to defend himself his responses are articulate and interesting.
In this instance we need to remember that Seb would have been aware the matter was being referred to the stewards. He could not have said anything to admit guilt or wrong doing, he had to give a consistent response in line with the argument he was going to give Derek Warwick and co.
As it was he was in the wrong, but let's not put him to the sword based on comments made immediately after a race when emotions are running high and ambushed by the media. |
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Editor
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 09:28 Post subject: |
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| Vettel is one of the least arrogant guys out there. |
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White Lightning
Site Admin
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 5990
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 09:51 Post subject: |
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| Did Schumacher go through the 'admiration/awe/derision' cycle that Vettel seems to be on the path to in the UK? |
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johnoneill2006
Single-Seater Rookie
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 134
Location: Ipswich
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:04 Post subject: |
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| White Lightning wrote: | | Did Schumacher go through the 'admiration/awe/derision' cycle that Vettel seems to be on the path to in the UK? |
Not sure if that is a rhetorical question - but yes he did.
In 1992, 1993, and up to Silverstone 1994 he came across in the UK as a young, happy, future superstar driver.
Then things started to go wrong - but to be honest, that wasn't helped by the fact that he had clearly had some awful advice on how to deal with the media.
He went from being his normal, nice self at Silverstone (congratulating Damon warmly on winning his home Grand Prix), to launching a stinging and unprovoked attack on Damon in the press a short time later.
Then there was the collision with Damon in Australia.
And then in 1995, he started using (beeped) swear words in most of his interviews, with a degree of arrogance - none of which helped him with the British media. |
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Podge 90
F2 Racer
Joined: 31 Mar 2010
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:57 Post subject: |
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I thought it was nice seeing Horner put in his place after bleating about the penalty and Hamilton unlapping himself 
"But-but what about-what about LEWIS?!" |
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Gary
F1 Driver
Joined: 15 Oct 2007
Posts: 929
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:56 Post subject: |
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| MatCoch wrote: | What we need to remember is that we don't see the context in what he is saying.
Often he's asked questions which are deliberately phrased to generate a response. Understandably he, and other drivers, are guarded in the way they respond.
What we read in the papers is not always a true or fair reflection of what was said.
I disagree that Seb is arrogant. He is very confident, and if he's asked a question where he does not have to defend himself his responses are articulate and interesting.
In this instance we need to remember that Seb would have been aware the matter was being referred to the stewards. He could not have said anything to admit guilt or wrong doing, he had to give a consistent response in line with the argument he was going to give Derek Warwick and co.
As it was he was in the wrong, but let's not put him to the sword based on comments made immediately after a race when emotions are running high and ambushed by the media. |
A nice defence but he did not demonstrate notable presence of mind when Niki Lauda asked him about the pass in the podium interview. Said Seb: "He (Button) didn't say anything to me, so... he didn't complain to me..."
This very shortly after we saw and heard the two of them discussing the incident in the 'hatting up' room. To quote Winston Churchill, 'a terminological inexactitude.'
Oops! (Cue Pinocchio smiley!) |
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The Rumble Strip
Grand Prix Winner
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Posts: 2066
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 21:48 Post subject: |
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No question the penalty should have been applied but just playing devils advocate for a minute, was it maybe too harsh.
Given it happened so close to the end, the stewards applied a time penalty of 20 seconds, supposedly equivalant to a drive through but a drive through would surely take less then 20 seconds.
The smart thing for Red Bull to have done was to make Vettel give the place back but I can understand reluctance to do that at such a critical time.
I am aware that there are limited things the stewards can do but to make Vettel finish fifth seems harsh, when he was a good way clear of that. |
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White Lightning
Site Admin
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 5990
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 22:21 Post subject: |
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| johnoneill2006 wrote: | | White Lightning wrote: | | Did Schumacher go through the 'admiration/awe/derision' cycle that Vettel seems to be on the path to in the UK? |
Not sure if that is a rhetorical question - but yes he did.
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Not at all, I was more interested in Rusks than F1 when he burst onto the scene!
Cheers for the info though, Mat. |
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pitball
F2 Racer
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 498
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 23:47 Post subject: |
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| The Rumble Strip wrote: | No question the penalty should have been applied but just playing devils advocate for a minute, was it maybe too harsh.
Given it happened so close to the end, the stewards applied a time penalty of 20 seconds, supposedly equivalant to a drive through but a drive through would surely take less then 20 seconds.
The smart thing for Red Bull to have done was to make Vettel give the place back but I can understand reluctance to do that at such a critical time.
I am aware that there are limited things the stewards can do but to make Vettel finish fifth seems harsh, when he was a good way clear of that. |
DC did bring that up on the after race chat in the highlights program, he said time in the pits there was 12 seconds, add slowing down and speeding up again and another 8 seconds may not be as far off as it sounds at first ?
If you count the amount of times Seb went all 4 wheels off the track whilst catching Button i can forgive the odd second or 3 extra he may have lost ove a "fair" penalty, i counted 8 times he left the track in the laps running up to the pass and well over 18 for the whole race but some were simple mistakes that will occure when "pushing on" (cant bloody beleive i just said that ) and that was just the highlights on the beeb i've yet to rewatch the whole race on me tivo box 
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Anfield5
World Champion
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 5070
Location: NEW PLYMOUTH; New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 04:14 Post subject: |
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| Editor wrote: | | Vettel is one of the least arrogant guys out there. |
From what I've seen, heard and read I would have to agree.
We all know that the media on the whole (with several notable exceptions) try and create controversy to sell papers, magazines etc, so framing questions to make Vettel (and many others) appear to be arrogant etc is what we should expect.
Every sporting contest needs a degree of goodies vs baddies, from the point of view of the British media the goodies are fairly obviously Hamilton and Button, so their main rivals Vettel and Alonso only really have one role to play.
In the past it has been the same story with Hill v Schumacher, Mansell v Piquet, possibly but can 't remember Hunt v Lauda etc
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gourami
F1 Driver
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 856
Location: S Y D N E Y
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 06:18 Post subject: |
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I've seen Vettel with the public in Melbourne. He's a genuine guy. Lucky, gifted and absolutely genuine.
Oh yes and the penalty was deserved. The wide run offs of modern circuits is for driver safety, not for driving off circuit safely.
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Watching F1 since 1998... trackside at Silverstone, Shanghai and Melbourne. |
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moonrover
Grand Prix Winner
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 1269
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 08:34 Post subject: |
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Penalty was righteous, no doubt...
But I can't hide my worries that he is not always capable to control his
emotions on track...
it's not only his finger now, it's the attitude on track which gradually worsens.
to me it is significant...
clearly not only this has diminished his publicity but also hampered his
potential success by scattered concentration. |
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qml
World Champion
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 3386
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 08:46 Post subject: |
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There was no doubt that he was guilty.
The crap that came out of his mouth in the attempt to cover it up was just pathetic.
He seems to be getting worse as his frustrations esculate
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