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xynaria
World Champion
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 3337
Location: L o n d o n
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 09:52 Post subject: |
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| Anfield5 wrote: |
The odd thing is though most of us (older ones) loved Murray Walker (as Crompton alludes to)
He was basically a font of misinformation. He was always getting things wrong, identifying the wrong driver, missing what was going on right in front of him. And as for his none stop overly enthusiastic verbal dihorea...
So what is the difference? |
Hard to say. You could kind of put it down to 'personality' but I think it's more to do with being 'genuine' I don't think anyone ever got the idea with Murray that he was patronising his audience and there was an air of real enthusiasm with him. If you did like him you did so in spite of (and maybe even because of) his gaffes.
I can't comment on Croft because (and God knows how  ) I can, and do, completely switch off from him (so far at least) But I detested James Allen and loathed Legard beyond belief. Allen's 'excitement' always sounded contrived, smug and false ....none of them appealing traits. Legard came over as patronising, arrogant, out of touch, and talked at the audience rather than to. In all cases it's a question of trying too hard...........i.e trying to be something you're not if you like.
I've little doubt that in 'real life' James Allen and Jonathon Legard are probably not people you'd take offence at but as commentators...arrrggh.
Brundle just IMHO comes over as a guy who's doing his job and has a passion for what he does....same as Murray, however different their 'styles' might appear.
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it'll all end in tears..........cool!  |
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Podge 90
F2 Racer
Joined: 31 Mar 2010
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:01 Post subject: |
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| Anfield5 wrote: | | So what is the difference? |
I agree it is strange. The only thing I can think of is that Murray had his charm. He made his bumbling errors in his commentary, but then he also came out with classics like "IF is a very long word in Formula One; in fact, IF is F1 spelt backwards". Things like that endeared him to people. Now we have a commentator who gets things wrong but doesn't have that 'charm' that sets him apart.
| Gary wrote: | | I recommend searching 'Raymond Baxter' in YouTube. You should find a 3 min 49 second clip therein of his commentary of the opening laps of the 1973 British Grand Prix. That's what I call commentary for the civilised! |
You are the charmer Gary
But yes, that clip shows what I mean about the 'less is more' approach - to quite an extreme!
When Legard or Croft gets excited you have to either stop your conversation or turn the volume down (F1 has to be loud right?). I found/find myself having to all but shout over the TV commentator to talk to whoever I am watching it with because their voice becomes that overbearing. Now take that Baxter video. You could read a sermon while the huge crash is unfolding without having to let the man behind the microphone say his piece first. And guess what, we know it's dramatic because we can see cars flying all over the place, colliding and smashing up without having a man shout at us. |
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bawjohnson
F3 Racer
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 14:40 Post subject: |
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So people are labelling him a "nonce" and a "tw*t" because there's one aspect of his commentary that you don't like? - seriously there's more important things to worry about. Write to Sky if it bothers you that much?  |
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Editor
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 15:10 Post subject: |
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| bawjohnson wrote: | | So people are labelling him a "nonce" and a "tw*t" because there's one aspect of his commentary that you don't like? - seriously there's more important things to worry about. Write to Sky if it bothers you that much? |
I'm pretty sure Kismet isn't aware of the British meaning of "nonce" or otherwise wouldn't have used it.
In my eyes, other than everything else, he's a twat for giving away the result of the Man U - Evertone game away during a Grand Prix. |
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francisn
Moderator
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 4584
Location: Closer to Woking than Maranello - unfortunately
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 18:56 Post subject: |
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| Editor wrote: | | Gary wrote: | Beautifully put Podge 90. Spot on.
If I may (flick this, mods, if I'm breaking da rules), I recommend searching 'Raymond Baxter' in YouTube. You should find a 3 min 49 second clip therein of his commentary of the opening laps of the 1973 British Grand Prix. That's what I call commentary for the civilised!
Oh by the way, the clip itself shows a young Jody Scheckter being a very wayward young F1 driver indeed!  |
Raymond Baxter was a gentleman and a fine broadcaster... he would cringe at Croft an Co. |
Totally agree with that. Mind you - he might have had a few comments to make about Murray as well  |
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Podge 90
F2 Racer
Joined: 31 Mar 2010
Posts: 486
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 19:21 Post subject: |
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I thought I knew the meaning of the word "nonce", so I looked it up.
Turns out I didn't know the meaning of the word "nonce". |
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francisn
Moderator
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 4584
Location: Closer to Woking than Maranello - unfortunately
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 21:42 Post subject: |
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| Editor wrote: |
In my eyes, other than everything else, he's a twat for giving away the result of the Man U - Evertone game away during a Grand Prix. |
Yes - that was unforgivable - other than that I can live with him - just |
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TokyoAussie
F1 Driver
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 946
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 04:19 Post subject: |
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On radio, the exuberance had to make up for the lack of video. I don't get Sky coverage, but if he is carrying on the same on the box, it would be over the top. Exuberance and shouting are not the same thing. One can be done without the other.
Funnily enough, James Allen is bearable on the radio. probably for the same reason. Of course, when his sidekick is a non-native English speaker (i.e. Alguersuari), it isn't hard to come out looking the better of the two. |
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francisn
Moderator
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 4584
Location: Closer to Woking than Maranello - unfortunately
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 18:11 Post subject: |
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| TokyoAussie wrote: | On radio, the exuberance had to make up for the lack of video. I don't get Sky coverage, but if he is carrying on the same on the box, it would be over the top. Exuberance and shouting are not the same thing. One can be done without the other.
Funnily enough, James Allen is bearable on the radio. probably for the same reason. Of course, when his sidekick is a non-native English speaker (i.e. Alguersuari), it isn't hard to come out looking the better of the two. |
I think you are right. Hopefully someone will have a quiet word in his ear and he will improve. the one thing that all this proves is now difficult it is to do a good commentary.
For those that watch footie on Sky, the revelation of the season has been what a good pundit Gary Neville has been. Even one of my best mates who is a dyed in the wool City fan who hates anything and everything to do with United agrees that he is top notch. Just goes to show how the unexpected can turn up.
There were a lot of people who rooted for Crofty for the job, but so far it just hasn't worked out. I think Ben Edwards is doing OK on the Beeb, but in some ways he is TOO restrained. I do like a bit of excitement in the commentary. It would be interesting to see how James Allen would cope with a second shot at it, having had time to be away from it and think about it. I really hated his commentating first time round - he was a pastiche of Murray without the old boy's natural idiosyncrasies, but he has certainly restored his stature in my eyes with his writing.
At least we do get to see the races - well some of us anyway |
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bewildered_jim
Grand Prix Winner
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 2243
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 08:59 Post subject: |
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| Podge 90 wrote: |
Turns out I didn't know the meaning of the word "nonce" |
*tap tap tap*
...
*eyes widen*
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"With its F1 coverage from 2012 set to play second fiddle, the BBC promises to get fans close to the true experience - of being Mark Webber" #HIGNFY @don_lyall |
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Ash
F3 Racer
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
Posts: 208
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 14:58 Post subject: |
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| francisn wrote: | | TokyoAussie wrote: | On radio, the exuberance had to make up for the lack of video. I don't get Sky coverage, but if he is carrying on the same on the box, it would be over the top. Exuberance and shouting are not the same thing. One can be done without the other.
Funnily enough, James Allen is bearable on the radio. probably for the same reason. Of course, when his sidekick is a non-native English speaker (i.e. Alguersuari), it isn't hard to come out looking the better of the two. |
I think you are right. Hopefully someone will have a quiet word in his ear and he will improve. the one thing that all this proves is now difficult it is to do a good commentary.
For those that watch footie on Sky, the revelation of the season has been what a good pundit Gary Neville has been. Even one of my best mates who is a dyed in the wool City fan who hates anything and everything to do with United agrees that he is top notch. Just goes to show how the unexpected can turn up.
There were a lot of people who rooted for Crofty for the job, but so far it just hasn't worked out. I think Ben Edwards is doing OK on the Beeb, but in some ways he is TOO restrained. I do like a bit of excitement in the commentary. It would be interesting to see how James Allen would cope with a second shot at it, having had time to be away from it and think about it. I really hated his commentating first time round - he was a pastiche of Murray without the old boy's natural idiosyncrasies, but he has certainly restored his stature in my eyes with his writing.
At least we do get to see the races - well some of us anyway |
I agree with you about Gary Neville, Francis. I hated him as a opposition player, but as a pundit he's excellent, and has shown the Hanson & Lawro dinosaurs on the BBC up for what they are - overpaid bores with no insight.
I haven't been too bothered by Croft so far, despite his mistakes, as it's early days and I'd like to give him a chance to settle in and learn the role, but I'll probably listen to Edwards for the next race the BBC have to see how he's getting on. I enjoyed his commentary on the Touring Cars and A1, although I was surprised to see him described as restrained, as to me he always came across as quite enthusiastic.
To me the worst commentator was Legard. I cannot begin to describe how awful he was. James Allen would occasionally say the most excruciatingly stupid and cringeworthy things but was still better than Legard.
For me the main weakness in the Sky team is Lazenby. As the main presenter he lacks charisma and seems to make his co-hosts feel uneasy with his un-engaging tone, screwed up face and general lack of interest. As above though, I'm prepared to give them all a little time to get their setup right and hopefully Damon will relax a bit in future. Though Johnny Herbert seems a natural in front of the cameras and hopefully we'll see plenty more of him. |
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Editor
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:45 Post subject: |
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Brilliant nobody wants to talk to Brundle....
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Editor
Site Admin
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 4033
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:46 Post subject: |
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| Car crash TV... and that's before the race starts |
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BobTheBuilder
Kart Novice
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 17
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 15:36 Post subject: |
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| Am I the only one struggling with the F1 Forum on the red button? |
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F One
F1 Driver
Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 973
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 15:49 Post subject: |
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| BobTheBuilder wrote: | | Am I the only one struggling with the F1 Forum on the red button? |
You can watch it over the web too.
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Si hoc adfixum in obicle legere potes, et liberaliter educatus et nimis propinquus ades. |
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