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Is Williams Dead?
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White Lightning
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Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 5990
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 17:08    Post subject: Is Williams Dead? Reply with quote

Today's story here

Parr says that Williams' performance so far is 'unacceptable' and he's spot on. For fans of Williams such as myself and probably the majority of true racing fans across the world, their demise has been slow, painful and inexorable. They're behind the HRTs for goodness sake and they're battling with the Virgins every weekend.

Personally, I think Parr is part of the problem. He's not a racer and is in no way a fitting heir to Sir Frank and Patrick, who are, much as it saddens me to say, past it. I'm glad they didn't sell up to BMW - look where that would have led them - but I think the time has come.

The team badly needs investment. The share scheme has been successful only for their retirement funds and the price continues to fall with every poor weekend and it must be galling for a man of Sir Frank's pride to have to beg a socialist dictator for petty cash.

I don't see them continuing much longer in their current guise. Whether this means the team folding, being bought out by yet another Asian business mogul or continuing as Williams under new ownership/management, I couldn't say, but even in 2011, this is not the team of Jones, Rosberg, Mansell, Villeneuve and Montoya. It's not even the team of Ralf Schumacher.

So my question is this: is Williams dead?
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F One
F1 Driver


Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 973
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 17:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's sad indeed to see such a great team in such dire straits. Crying or Very sad
Maybe giving Sam Michael the boot might indeed be a step in the right direction? After all I believe that they've been in a steady decline since he took charge and have won only 1 race in that time (2004).
Also his crowing over how awesome their tiny gearbox is has made him look extra silly as that built up expectations of success.
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Editor
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Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 17:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the team's problems coincide with Parr’s arrival – he legend in his own imagination, a number of good people have left the team because they cannot work with him.

The floatation was outrageous, all it did was raise money for Head’s pension pot. Then again, he and Patrick are good friends of (perma tan) Pete(er) Hain so draw you own conclusions.

Frank wants to have his cake and eat it.
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xynaria
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Joined: 03 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 19:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm being incredibly naive here, but is announcing public broadsides against your own team (waves to Luca) generally seen as good management strategy?
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solarflare
World Champion


Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 20:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

The worst thing about it is personally I thought the sport was coming back towards them.

They had survived the hedonistic excesses of the manufacturer era of the 2000's, even though they were getting down to last-privateer-standing territory. They kept alive and aflot and saw that period through.

Now a lot of those manufacturers have either disappeared (BMW, Honda, Toyota) or seriously scaled back their investment and financial involvement (Renault), and we also have resource restriction arrangements, and still the team seems to languish near the back.

You look at some of the teams they are behind - I mean Sauber have done a good job post-BMW but Williams should easily be able to clear Sauber, Force India and Toro Rosso, let alone struggle to beat a Team Lotus over a race distance. OK I think expecting Williams to beat Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari is difficult given their last few years, but reasonably I think they should be able to compete with Renault and potentially Mercedes - but they've not shown much inkling of doing that this season.

Someone else put it better than me when they said the now-standard "Williams: we've gone aggressive this season" rhetoric is the new "DC: this is my year" annual hyperbole disappointment.

They're not dead: they're just sh$t. And the livery doesn't even look as nice as last season.

I hope it comes together for them - the name alone means a lot to F1. I do like Williams. But they're certainly trying everyone's patience whilst the lean period goes on.
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bawjohnson
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Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 21:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

They seem to have slowly unravelled over the last 5 years or so, in purely sporting terms they aren't even on nodding terms with 'pace' at the moment, and the latest debrief shows that they are throwing absolutely everything at just breaking into the top ten, sad stuff
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bewildered_jim
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Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 09:30    Post subject: Reply with quote

solarflare wrote:

Someone else put it better than me when they said the now-standard "Williams: we've gone aggressive this season" rhetoric is the new "DC: this is my year" annual hyperbole disappointment.



Every single year since 2006 there's been an autosport article on "Williams - this years Dark Horse?". Count 'em.
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Editor
Site Admin


Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 09:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

bewildered_jim wrote:
solarflare wrote:

Someone else put it better than me when they said the now-standard "Williams: we've gone aggressive this season" rhetoric is the new "DC: this is my year" annual hyperbole disappointment.



Every single year since 2006 there's been an autosport article on "Williams - this years Dark Horse?". Count 'em.


Well this year the horse is called Hercules and it's heading for the knackers yard.
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White Turf
F3 Racer


Joined: 02 Jun 2005
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Location: Galway Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes sad to see a team with such a rich history decline in this fashion. Even Mike Gascoyne, when asked who Lotus were targeting commented that sadly it was Williams. (BBC forum) Asked to clarify he said that it was sad to see a once great team in such a poor state.
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eduisfine
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Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Santa Cruz de la Sierra - Bolivia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 16:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Williams G.P.Hld.Ls-05 Dz (WGF1)
€ 17.19

52 Week High: € 24.38
52 Week Low: € 17.19
Currency: Euro
Volume: 8,169

No need to read Autosport anymore to keep track of Williams, just check the FT to see how their race went!
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bawjohnson
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Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 16:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Editor wrote:

Well this year the horse is called Hercules and it's heading for the knackers yard.


I think there'll be a glue factory van pulling up at Grove
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Senna_MP4/4
Karter


Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 13:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weeell if they're battling Hispania for position... Confused
then the answer must surely be yes... Crying or Very sad
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GJ
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Joined: 12 Jun 2006
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 16:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way they have been going the last years, the answer would have to be: do bears sh*t in the woods, is the Pope roman-catholic? Wink
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bowman
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Joined: 22 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 16:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

GJ wrote:
The way they have been going the last years, the answer would have to be: do bears sh*t in the woods, is the Pope roman-catholic? Wink

Willy... what?

Wasn't it something Monty Python talk about on one of their songs...?
(So three cheers for your Willy or John Thomas...)

Ah, you mean Williams... the deodorant brand?

Or do you mean Williams, Robbie, the british singer?
('Cos I got too much speed / Running through my veins / Going to waste...)
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GJ
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

bowman wrote:
GJ wrote:
The way they have been going the last years, the answer would have to be: do bears sh*t in the woods, is the Pope roman-catholic? Wink

Willy... what?

Wasn't it something Monty Python talk about on one of their songs...?
(So three cheers for your Willy or John Thomas...)

Ah, you mean Williams... the deodorant brand?

Or do you mean Williams, Robbie, the british singer?
('Cos I got too much speed / Running through my veins / Going to waste...)


In my book you just earned yourself 10 brownie points for getting Monthy Python into your reply. Applause
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