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benwillfordjohnson
Grand Prix Winner
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Ashby de-la Zouch, UK
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 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 14:01 Post subject: |
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| Sean Brian Kirby wrote: | Montoya was well overrated in Formula One - the guy never impressed me. That he's not great in NASCAR should not be a huge shock to anyone.
Now Schumacher - there's someone who would do well in NASCAR!  |
I have to disagree with you there Sean- I loved Montoya, he was the only person who didn't fall in line behind Michael of recent years (save alonso, cynics may say mass dampers were a great help there  ) and actually took the fight to him - a true racer i'd say. I nearly ruined a carpet with spilt drinks after that overtaking move at the bus stop at spa (I forget the year)
I'm not completely au fait with NASCAR, true, but out of the races I've watched, the amount of sheer luck involved with the drafting, road courses where the shocking driving skills of the vast majority of the field are painfully highlighted and the fact they throw a yellow flag if a crisp packet gets dropped within 50m of the track doesnt instill in my mind a true racing series where drivers can make the difference.
Speed? meh. can take him or leave him, fairly solid and very unspectacular, reputation was sullied by some spectacular dummy spitting and belief he was entitled to something in F1 |
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chris.blades85
Grand Prix Winner
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1588
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 20:08 Post subject: |
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Montoya was a 'racer'
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garf
F1 Test Driver
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Tallinn, Estonia
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:36 Post subject: |
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| Sean Brian Kirby wrote: | | Now Schumacher - there's someone who would do well in NASCAR! |
However... is he a racer by your definition?
I mean, he proved himself to be an outstanding 2nd fiddle to Irvine in the final races of 1999. By your definition, anyone who would move over for his teammate is not a racer.
Not saying Michael isn't a racer. Just questioning the definition.
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Sean Brian Kirby
World Champion
Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 5652
Location: Reisterstown, MD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 02:25 Post subject: |
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And then there are those individuals who can drive anything. Such as Sir Stirling, Andretti, Dan Gurney, and Tony Stewart. Why does one get the sneaking suspicion a man of Schumacher's calibre would be among these?
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Sean Brian Kirby
World Champion
Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 5652
Location: Reisterstown, MD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 02:34 Post subject: |
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| chris.blades85 wrote: | | Montoya was a 'racer' |
Montoya admitted to simply going for the eight in a race, when he could have gone for a win. Why? 'Cause it was eight points. He said, "Why push?" Hardly a racer. Nor someone with very good racecraft.
Schumacher was paid an awful lot of money. And was too professional to even think of saying, "No," while making said money. This one's easy, though. Would you say Gilles Villeneuve was a racer?
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chris.blades85
Grand Prix Winner
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1588
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:23 Post subject: |
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What do you class as a racer?
Are you saying you think Gilles wasn't? I wasn't born when he was around, but I've never heard someone tell me that he wasn't a 'racer'
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benwillfordjohnson
Grand Prix Winner
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Ashby de-la Zouch, UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:11 Post subject: |
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Do I detect a little personal ill feeling towards mr Montoya there Sean...?
at least he tried even though he didn't pull it off - I'd rather someone give it a go and fail that settle, although i think every Grand Prix driver of the modern era has had to settle for a points finish at some point.
Also thinking of that, can I throw another name in here?: Alain Prost
He was known for going for strong points finishes rather than wins, yet I've never come across anyone who says that he isn't a strong champion. And racecraft? His swapping of insurance details at Suzuka with a certain Mr Senna sheds some light on that..
Bottom line - Race drivers are human, and I like to see them acting that way, failings and all |
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Sean Brian Kirby
World Champion
Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 5652
Location: Reisterstown, MD
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 07:06 Post subject: |
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My point is Gilles was all racer, every bit - and he willingly played second-fiddle to a a lesser driver in '79 for professional reasons. Though the end results of these kinds of politics, as we know, were unhappy in the extreme.
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bewildered_jim
Grand Prix Winner
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 2243
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 18:48 Post subject: |
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Personally, I tend to think there's a bit of overt romance over "racers".
Montoya was just a bit crude, I thought. His move on Rosberg at Canada 2006 (into turn, 4? the downhill one in the 1st sector) was just blunt. His response was along the lines of "better than doing nothing" even though it was early in the race.
Didn't see the attraction, really. |
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Sean Brian Kirby
World Champion
Joined: 04 Mar 2004
Posts: 5652
Location: Reisterstown, MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 06:48 Post subject: |
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And as I've noted, before, Montoya was no racer.
As an aside - I thought it was danged funny when I saw a license plate with "JPM" as the letters on it, today.
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