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Sean Brian Kirby World Champion

Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 5652 Location: Reisterstown, MD
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:37 Post subject: |
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Paul - I sometimes think of you when Brutus goes off (the deep end).
Fat Baby Schumey strikes again.  |
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HoosierDaddy F1 Driver

Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 968 Location: Winchestertonfieldville
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 14:32 Post subject: |
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| Paul wrote: | I'm beginning to like Brutus, having agreed with every post of his that I have read. |
Well, since they are all the same, if you agree with one you will agree with them all.  _________________ Those who forget they're passed are doomed to repeat it. |
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Sean Brian Kirby World Champion

Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 5652 Location: Reisterstown, MD
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Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 16:15 Post subject: |
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You know, that's true, Hoosier. Now, Brutus doesn't cut-and-paste from discussion to discussion... but he seems to have this little tick. My Mom's old Beatles records used to do the same thing, when I listened to them as a boy. But then, Brutus ain't the Beatles... _________________ Hear Truth. See Truth. Speak Truth. |
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Mr Nigel F3 Racer

Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 291 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:51 Post subject: |
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Great post Brutus and a good plug for the Book (I will be putting that one on my Christmas list)
Pump Daddies Silence on this one is deafening , come PDJ tell us all about how Zannardi is a useless Hack daddy’s boy or some such thing, and how real gentlemen racers like Schumacher are aloud to defend their racing line on both sides of the track simultaneously, and how if Angelelli had just spun out fairly and hadn’t hit Michaels car, Michael would not have been forced to dangerously placed his car on the track to stop the race.
Or shall we just chalk one up to Brutus.
Well I’m off to see my therapist now I feel that Australia 1994 anger welling up agian  |
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StuntCarRacer Single-Seater Rookie

Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 127 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 14:05 Post subject: |
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| Mr Nigel wrote: | | ...real gentlemen racers like Schumacher are aloud to defend their racing line on both sides of the track simultaneously... |
Don't get me started on MS's "defensive" moves...Do you remember the move he did on Alonso down Hangar Straight at the British GP? - He moved so far to the right, even though Alonso was virtually beside him, that he actually pushed him right onto the grass...And at very high speed! A manoeuvre more akin to banger racing...Yeah man, that's F1 racing!  |
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tiggers Site Admin

Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 5201 Location: Alderaan
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 15:03 Post subject: |
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StuntCarRacer,
Is it only me who can see the irony of your crticism of Schuey's defensive moves whilst proudly displaying Senna's name and logo in your avatar. At least Schuey's moves are opportunist unlike Senna's pre-meditated removal of Prost in Suzuka 1990.
I should point out that I have no problem with Schuey or Senna, both great racers with a will to win the rest of us can only dream about, it's just your criticism of one and obvious support of the other seems hypocritical.
As for the Zanardi incident described above whilst it doesn't seem very sporting it just goes to show that Schuey even then was in this sport to win and would use every last rule in the book to give himself the opportunity to do so. |
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StuntCarRacer Single-Seater Rookie

Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 127 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 15:33 Post subject: |
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Fair point tiggers, fair point.
What I say in response is that Senna stated before the race "I'm going to be first into the first corner" - a statement of intent, if you will. And he didn't hide behind excuses and appeals.
What I dislike about Schumacher's moves is that he uses the "one move across the track rule" - and hey, don't forget, it was his driving technique that was a major factor in the introduction of that rule - and takes it to extremes. Being able to move across the track once to block is one thing, but forcing someone off the track is quite another. - This wasn't a "two into one doesn't go" corner entry situation, it was down a long, fast straight. |
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Brutus Grand Prix Winner

Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 1506
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Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 02:04 Post subject: |
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| tiggers wrote: |
As for the Zanardi incident described above whilst it doesn't seem very sporting it just goes to show that Schuey even then was in this sport to win and would use every last rule in the book to give himself the opportunity to do so. |
Being disqualified for "using" the rules is called blatant cheating. Schumi is very well known for his willingness to cheat in order to win. There are other incidents like Macau 90 that shows what kind of person he is.
If you guys are surprised of PDJ's silence. I am not. What can he say? Probably he pretends this topic never existed and goes back to his Schumi temple and gets on his knees in front of Schumi's statue and repeats 1000 times Schumi is not a cheater. Such is the blindness of certain Schumi fans better known as Schumi Lambs.  |
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tiggers Site Admin

Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 5201 Location: Alderaan
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Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 02:46 Post subject: |
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| Brutus wrote: | | tiggers wrote: |
As for the Zanardi incident described above whilst it doesn't seem very sporting it just goes to show that Schuey even then was in this sport to win and would use every last rule in the book to give himself the opportunity to do so. |
Being disqualified for "using" the rules is called blatant cheating. |
I was refering to his positioning his stranded car back on the circuit to force a restart rather than the engine discrepancy.
| Brutus wrote: | | If you guys are surprised of PDJ's silence. I am not. What can he say? Probably he pretends this topic never existed and goes back to his Schumi temple and gets on his knees in front of Schumi's statue and repeats 1000 times Schumi is not a cheater. Such is the blindness of certain Schumi fans better known as Schumi Lambs. |
So is this 'The Silence of the (Schumi) Lambs' then  |
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Shant F F1 Driver

Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 941 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 02:53 Post subject: |
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| StuntCarRacer wrote: | | This wasn't a "two into one doesn't go" corner entry situation, it was down a long, fast straight. |
So is Portugal '88 fair play in your book?
Not taking sides, just curious. |
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lapo F2 Racer
Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 415 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 03:35 Post subject: |
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Just a thought:
From the transcript, the only reason Schumacher was disqualified was the fact that the spare car's engine was a different make, not that it was an illegal engine per se.
Does it not follow that this engine was not as good as the one in the race car? Otherwise, why not put this one in it?
So, if I understand it correctly, Schumacher was disqualified on a technicality, after having won the race using sub par equipment... |
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Brutus Grand Prix Winner

Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 1506
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Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 02:42 Post subject: |
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| tiggers wrote: | | Brutus wrote: | | tiggers wrote: |
As for the Zanardi incident described above whilst it doesn't seem very sporting it just goes to show that Schuey even then was in this sport to win and would use every last rule in the book to give himself the opportunity to do so. |
Being disqualified for "using" the rules is called blatant cheating. |
I was refering to his positioning his stranded car back on the circuit to force a restart rather than the engine discrepancy.
| Brutus wrote: | | If you guys are surprised of PDJ's silence. I am not. What can he say? Probably he pretends this topic never existed and goes back to his Schumi temple and gets on his knees in front of Schumi's statue and repeats 1000 times Schumi is not a cheater. Such is the blindness of certain Schumi fans better known as Schumi Lambs. |
So is this 'The Silence of the (Schumi) Lambs' then  |
LOL
That one is a classic.  |
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Brutus Grand Prix Winner

Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 1506
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 14:17 Post subject: |
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| lapo wrote: | Just a thought:
From the transcript, the only reason Schumacher was disqualified was the fact that the spare car's engine was a different make, not that it was an illegal engine per se.
Does it not follow that this engine was not as good as the one in the race car? Otherwise, why not put this one in it?
So, if I understand it correctly, Schumacher was disqualified on a technicality, after having won the race using sub par equipment... |
Another Schumi fan doing a ostrish on here LOL.
So they put a different engine because they knew it was not as good as the VW? Or was it because they did not have enough money? Probably Schumi asked their mechanics to install bike pedals instead of an engine.
In my view they had clearly two cars. Probably one for race and one for Qualies. Probably the Opel one was the qualifying and spare car. There is nothing in Schumi's history to suggest that using an illegal car was not having in mind getting an advantage. Why cheat if it is not to gain and advantage? |
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lapo F2 Racer
Joined: 04 Mar 2004 Posts: 415 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 16:50 Post subject: |
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| Brutus wrote: | | lapo wrote: | Just a thought:
From the transcript, the only reason Schumacher was disqualified was the fact that the spare car's engine was a different make, not that it was an illegal engine per se.
Does it not follow that this engine was not as good as the one in the race car? Otherwise, why not put this one in it?
So, if I understand it correctly, Schumacher was disqualified on a technicality, after having won the race using sub par equipment... |
Another Schumi fan doing a ostrish on here LOL.
So they put a different engine because they knew it was not as good as the VW? Or was it because they did not have enough money? Probably Schumi asked their mechanics to install bike pedals instead of an engine.
In my view they had clearly two cars. Probably one for race and one for Qualies. Probably the Opel one was the qualifying and spare car. There is nothing in Schumi's history to suggest that using an illegal car was not having in mind getting an advantage. Why cheat if it is not to gain and advantage? |
LOL, talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
AFAIK, there is nothing in Schumacher's history to prove that he has ever knowingly raced in an illegal car in order to gain an advantage. To say otherwise would be the same as blaming JPM for William's brake ducts in Montreal.
The point still remains, that the Opel engined car was second choice for the race, and he still won in it. If his intention was to cheat, then why cheat on the restart and not at the first start? It doesn't make sense.
Don't you think it more likely that MS raced the Opel engined car, because that's the only car they had left???? |
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Brutus Grand Prix Winner

Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 1506
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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 20:57 Post subject: |
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No. They race the legal car because they qualified in an illegal car. Everyone knows that they check the cars after the race not after qualifying.
Schumi must certainly knew that his car had an opel engine and therefore it was illegal? how is that for not willingly race and illegal car and therefore cheat? I know what you are going to say. "he was forced to drive that car". Or just like in 94 the official excuse from Benetton cheating with the fuel rig was that an obscure employe of the team removed the filter with no authorization and without anyone noticing it. Yeah right.
"cheaters do prosper" a nice review on Schumi's and others cheats in F1. You can find it on this site. Just look at Mike Lawrence's articles. |
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